Handheld And Vehicle Radios

[Hurls]

Hi all,

It seems that the more groups I join, the more important it seems to be to stay in touch in the bush.

I know nothing about UHF/ VHF radios or what to get, I have never had one in my vehicle so need some advice.

I am not so much looking for the models or prices people have paid, just the features I should be looking for. Do you get UHF / VHF in one unit, if not, is one more common than the others. Does one have better range.

What’s the go while you are hunting generally? Do you use and headset with your handheld to stop the noise in the bush or do you generally just have check in times?

All Basic Questions I know but I have never hunted in groups and now I seem to be getting into it more

What else do I need to know.

Cheers People 

[goswasere']

Mate Just to start with I am no expert on the subject but I'll do my best:

UHF (Ultra High Frequency) is what most characters poke around with, haven't seen many VHF if any mounted on vehicles. They normally require a longer antenna, as do most radios, generally the bigger the antenna the better the range you get out of it as long as it is the right length, that is, it is the same length as the wavelength being transmitted, or 1/4,1/2, 3/4 of it. I think with UHF antennas it is pretty much universal, but the bloke at the shop should be able to help you.

UHF is more or less "line of sight" in that you will get clear comms with another callsign as long as the air in a direct line between you and that callsign is free from obstruction.

If the are obstructions such as vegetation, buildings and terrain you will require more power to penetrate/get around them if at all possible. Most Vehicle radios work on 5Watts, most hand held UHF's work on 1Watt. It should be noted having the radio on a higher power setting will not help receive transmissions

Another function of most UHF's is called "Duplex" This means when in this mode a repeater station will pick up your transmission and retransmit it at a higher power E.G. 100W (guessing), so that you will get greatly increased range. These Repeaters are normally put on large spotheights for good "LOS". Duplex mode can usually only be activated in the first 8 or so channels on your UHF.

There is another function on my radio called "CTSS" or something or other. It is like crypto that when you and another callsign/s have your radios set on the same setting and channel you both can hear each other and no one else. And no one else can hear you. Helpful for busy channels.

"Scan" is a fairly standard function that most radios have that enables you to scan across all channels and pick up any radio traffic in the area. Some radios can scan and communicate with Emergency Services, not sure weather they use different Frequencies or there is crypto (ref: CTSS) involved with that.

"Squelch", all radios have it you but is often overlooked you should read up on how to use it

Basically used to block out interference, but if you are not careful you will block out weaker signals you want to hear.

OK that about covers UHF.

There is another semi-common type of radio getting around, I think it is referred to as AM (Amplitude Modulation). It uses a different kind of antenna to bounce a wave up to the ionosphere and return it back down to the ground, giving you less horizontal range in open terrain but more in close terrain or very steep country. I have not had much experience with this type of radio.

However I have had experience with a type of radio called HF (High Freq) and I think it works in a similar way in that you can use a large surface/external object to help launch your transmission. In the case of a vehicle it's roof with this type of radio placement of the antenna on the car is crucial and depends on the direction you wish to transmit.

This AM radio is not as prevalent as the UHF but you have to decide wether it will better suit the type of comms you will need to maintain. E.G. Are you likely to be operating in steep remote country? and if so is there adequate coverage of this area with repeater stations? If so you may not need AM? Most blokes go with UHF as there is pretty good coverage around Aus with repeater stations.

As for how you use the radio, that is completely up to you but. If I may make a few suggestions: keep your transmissions short and concise, don't interrupt transmissions between other parties (listen for a while before transmitting), hold the PTT button for 1 or 2 secs before and after transmitting and keep the handset 10cm away form your mouth (avoids distorted trans).

An acronym I like to use to control the way I speak is:

Rythm (steady)

Speed (not to slow as to tie up airways, not to fast to be incoherant)

Volume (loud enough to project but not distort)

Pitch (slightly higher pitch, womens voices are more clearly understood)

For further reading look up: Phoenetic Alphabet (helps to spell things when comms are bad)

Sorry to chew your ear/eyes off. But its a complicated subject. If you want to get the most out of your radio you will need to do some research and educate yourself.

Hope that helps...

Edited December 7, 2009 by goswasere'

[Worm]

Good post above

The only thing I would say is that the only feature you will use on a UHF is the scan mode, adjustable squelch, and RX and TX (receive and send voice)

Everything else is useless... I would go as far as to even say that CTCSS is useless. So no point paying for one that has a stack of features. Of course this is just my opinion and some people will find other features useful in certain situations. But for the most part see above.

Having said the above, my fav unit is the GME TX3340. But not because of the features but because its so bloody small. Perfect for areas where your car gets broken into. Im trying to score one off my mrs for Christmas haha

[len]

I have one of these and they are made by Yaesu and they are great radio

http://www.prestigecom.net.au/index.php?ma...products_id=558

You can get a replacement high gain aerial for it and lots of other goodies for it

[epitome]

I agree with the others.

Except to say forget about AM CB's. They are old school and were great in their day. But no-one uses them any more. If you had one and needed to call for help, the chances are that there wouldn't be anyone there to here you. I have a really nice Uniden AM CB and pulled it out of the car and replaced it with a UHF Uniden CB.

Where AM CB's were great was for long range. I used to "skip talk" off the ionosphere right across the country to the east coast. But back in the early 90's everyone had an AM CB. I could turn my CB on during the evening and there would be 2 or 3 conversations on every one of the 40 channels except for the emergency channel (ch9). Then mobile phones started getting cheaper and the AM CB disappeared.

[len]

I agree with the others.

Except to say forget about AM CB's. They are old school and were great in their day. But no-one uses them any more. If you had one and needed to call for help, the chances are that there wouldn't be anyone there to here you. I have a really nice Uniden AM CB and pulled it out of the car and replaced it with a UHF Uniden CB.

Where AM CB's were great was for long range. I used to "skip talk" off the ionosphere right across the country to the east coast. But back in the early 90's everyone had an AM CB. I could turn my CB on during the evening and there would be 2 or 3 conversations on every one of the 40 channels except for the emergency channel (ch9). Then mobile phones started getting cheaper and the AM CB disappeared.

I think for convoy work AM CB's are the go because no one uses them anymore so the channels are clear of users and idiots

[gafloss]

I've got a Uniden UH078SX 5w handheld UHF radio. Can't fault it so far.

Came with two batteries, speaker mic and a dual desktop charger.

Great battery life - haven't needed to use the spare while out & about.

http://www.ryda.com.au/Uniden-UH078SX-UHF-...d-p/uh078sx.htm

[Hurls]

Thanks Guys,

Gos you say that UHF doesn’t work so well in "non line of site" areas, so how and why do so many use it in the bushlands?

The rest I understand but this I am still not sure about. Are you just saying that a higher powered radio will penetrate better? What is your opinion of the distance you should expect in the Aussie bush with the UHF device you use?

Also, my other question was in regards to radios while stalking. Do you just turn them off or do you use a headset?

Thanks again

[goswasere']

Thanks Guys,

Gos you say that UHF doesn’t work so well in "non line of site" areas, so how and why do so many use it in the bushlands?

The rest I understand but this I am still not sure about. Are you just saying that a higher powered radio will penetrate better? What is your opinion of the distance you should expect in the Aussie bush with the UHF device you use?

Also, my other question was in regards to radios while stalking. Do you just turn them off or do you use a headset?

Thanks again

Na mate,

UHF does go alright in the bush, it penetrates vegetation allot better than it does steep hills, what I meant to say was that in comparison to AM, as a stand alone unit (no repeater station) the UHF will have less range than the AM Radio in steep country or over obstructions. But because repeater stations are so prevalent your pretty likely to get better comms with a UHF than a stand alone AM radio. Unless you start adjusting take off angle and power setting to get the right angle of reflection off the right layer of the Ionosphere. But that is beyond most of our capabilities and not worth discussing.

As for range you can expect out a vehicle mounted UHF it is going to vary greatly according to the terrain and vegetation you are transmitting over, the power you are pushing the signal out and the capabilities of your antenna. Yes the higher the amount of watts you can push out the greater the range. But I'll have a guess for you: with a 5W UHF with a F**K OFF antenna in billiard table desert terrain you might get up to 40-50 Km or even more out of it. But with the same set up over the same terrain with 15m high sparse vegetation on it you might only 20Km there is no hard and fast rule for them, if you are struggling to get comms you just have to do your best, move to high ground, turn down your squelch and so on.

But for the most part mate as the boys have said, get your self a lower end radio from a reputable brand such as Uniden, with the basic functions, a decent size antenna, that is practical and she's apples!

Mate as for walking around with a hand set I normally hunt alone when looking for deer and don't hunt with a radio on I just have it for emergencies. Also if you are asking about using radios to co-ordinate a hunt against deer species, and boys correct me if I'm wrong but I think its a bit frowned upon and not only by the authorities. That is not to say however that you can't run a safety net. But if you are just out west shooting pigs, goats and the like you can do what you want. If you wanted to stay quite and also maintain comms whilst stalking your best bet would probably be getting yourself a head set. In saying that from what I have been told most groups only turn the radios on when they hear a shot.

For more info on that one you are better off getting on to some of the blokes that hunt in dog teams.

Cheers Mate!

[Hurls]

Gos, Thanks heaps for the responses. You have answered everything I needed to know.

I know during the season, we will have 4 of us hunting the same large property (say 10,000ha) so may want to stay in comms but what you say makes sense. If you hear a shot, the radio goes on to hear the score. And then I assume scheduled check in times for safety reasons.

Shopping time. Cheers

[goswasere']

No Worries mate glad to help!

[epitome]

I think for convoy work AM CB's are the go because no one uses them anymore so the channels are clear of users and idiots

That is very true len. I was thinking in terms of having a single vehicle out in a back paddock or similar situation. In that case if you need to call for help on an AM CB, there will not be anyone on the other end to hear you.

[CZ_Shooter]

Hurls, Gos and worm have explained everything very well. Stick with UHF 477Mhz as with the 27Mhz AM are out of date.

VHF and HF require licenses and some training to use the radios. HF are mainly used by 4WD in very very remote outback areas and tend to be expensive.

With UHF 477 Mhz car units the 3 - 4.5dB antennas (shorter) tend to work better in hilly areas. 6 to 9dB antennas (longer) are more for flat terrain and signals will travel longer distances. All UHF are legally limited to 5 watts maximum transmit power.

Australia has a large selection of UHF repeater stations - some govt operated some are privately operated/owned. Repeaters are generally located to throw the signal over large hills / mountains and sometimes over long distances. Emergency services will send warnings over UHF about fires floods etc.

For the hand helds go with a 1 watt or better infact the 2 - 5watt are better at penetrating vegetation small hills. The hand helds are compromised with their antenna size and you will not get the distance with them. Some of the better more expensive handhelds allow antenna interchanges ie. clip on a higher gain antenna (2db or more) to increase signal strength.

Handheld range varies upon transmit power and terrain. The .5 watt versions are good for several hundred metres. the 1 - 2 watt for 1 - 2 kms average and the 5 watt for about 2 - 5kms average, depending upon antenna type and terrain. Most manufacturers claim longer distances but that is all theoretical in ideal conditions not real world. Remember that when using a handheld within a car, some signal is blocked by the metal body of the car. Also your body / head will absorb some of the signal thus the RF signal behind you is weaker .

As for stalking with headsets I find them to be more of a nuisance. You will have to set the Voice operated Transmission (VOX) so that wind, breathing sounds and vegetation crackling don't transmit false signals theus equating to discharging your battery quickly. Secondly in thick scrub the head set gets pushed off my head. Thirdly cables get in the way in scrub .

Now I just stick mine in pocket with volume turned down to a whisper and if mates just keep talking and irritating you with nonsense talk while your stalking then just sign off.

But I use the hand held and headset when spotlighting off the back of the ute to communicate with the driver via in car UHF radio. In winter the driver likes windows up to stop cold air and keeps out sound of muzzle blast as ear muffs block spoken commands (same with summer with Air Con and dust )

Best to stick with scheduled reporting times in case of emergencies during hunting (sprained ankles, sunstroke, snake bite etc) as well as turn on after a shot fired. Many years ago we were taught by Dept of Transport and Communications (DOTC) to listen for weak emergency signals on all channels at 3 minutes to the hour and every half hour. In fact this is still taught in the marine world. UHF emergency channel is Ch 5 (and 35 in duplex mode).

Handhelds are great when travelling with hunting buddies in several cars who may not have a UHF radio - just lend them one for the trip as not all areas in outback Aust have mobile phone coverage. Make sure you get the rechargeable kind (240v and 12v versions) with a spare battery or 2.

Edited December 8, 2009 by CZ_Shooter

[assailant]

I've got a Uniden UH078SX 5w handheld UHF radio. Can't fault it so far.

Came with two batteries, speaker mic and a dual desktop charger.

Great battery life - haven't needed to use the spare while out & about.

http://www.ryda.com.au/Uniden-UH078SX-UHF-...d-p/uh078sx.htm

ive just recently picked up one of these as well... took it out on the weekend for the first time.

its a little ripper of a unit, the dual charging station is nice - you drop the unit in the charger and the spare in the charger at the same time and charge both batteries at once... also a cigarette lighter adaptor would plug straight into the charger for in-car charging.

[Hurls]

Some great replies here guys. I really appreciate it.

Cheers

[Gibs]

Being a Radio Instructor and Licenced Operator, I use VHF. UHF is fine as has been covered above by all very well. Its only down fall in my view is lack of extended range with out repeaters. If range is needed one can get Directional Antennas in a kit form for Mobile(car) or Base units. Sadly tho, these are not cheap nor easy to set up for the novice. As strange as it may seam, a real cheap an nasty alternative is the old UHF (Ch28) TV antenna (with corrected drive elements its even better, simple to do since its Alu tubing). While its not as good as a purpose built Directional Antenna, it can help when all else fails with the standard antenna supplied with the unit. Its not recommended to try this on a handheld, it just wont have the power to drive the antenna. But a good Base/Mobile will, just.

Also its not hard to make your very own repeater out bush IF you have 2 units and a pre-homemade link cable. If anyone needs details on how to make a link cable PM me as I dont have the schematics on hand and would have to redo it. Its a nice ability to have if you can afford the extra unit or have another car in company and really need that extra coverage between stations (units).

Edited December 9, 2009 by Gibs

[Fireman_DJ]

I use an Icom 41S handheld with it's partner in crime the 400 Pro in my car. Nice radios.

As for 27Mhz being dead, nah, it's just sleeping. Technically, 27Mhz AM radios are HF radios, all be it the top end of the HF range. And people do still use them.

Mostly HAM operators who are exceeding transmission power limits to skip their signal around the world. But in an emergency, they'll help you.

I normally leave mine in a pocket, turned off as I hunt alone. But if there's others in the area I'll ask what channel they and on and tune in.

Btw, speaking of channels.

ch1 thru 8 are repeater channels (and ch 31-38 link are the other half's of the repeater channels).

ch5 (and it's repeater other half ch35) is the emergency channel.

ch10 is the unofficial 4x4 channel. I use this when ever out in the bush.

ch11 is the official calling channel. Monitor, make contact, goto a different channel.

ch18 is the unofficial "grey nomads" channel. Caravans and campers etc.

ch40 is the unofficial road or truckies channel. I always listen to this on the road. Partly because I am a truckie. You may find the local police tuning into the channel. You'll also learn some new swear words.

As for headsets, been thinling about getting a throat mic setup. Run the cable inside my clothing and all good. They use vibrations direct from your throat to work, NOT a microphone! So no wind noise. In theory, most background noise will not be heard and you can whisper in the middle of a battle field without a problem. Ebay have some cheap units, not sure how good they are.

[len]

For a car I would look at buying a Icom IC-440

I like the controls being on the mike

[Hurls]

Fireman DJ, that unit sounds great! Ill be intirested in your thoughts on it if and when you get one.

[Fireman_DJ]

The dual-band unit? http://www.telstat.com.au/uh095sx.htm

Not sure if anyone else makes one, and not sure what one it is being offered to me, but I'd say it's this one.

The big catch is, you need two antennas plugged into it. And I already have two antennas bolted into the bullbar, so I'll need to find a new spot for the 3rd antenna. Plus I don't believe it has sideband on 27Mhz. This boosts your signal a lot and is more popular with Ham operators.