Duncs Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hey all, I'm looking up info on HF networks and I've narrowed it down to two options. VKS and Radtel. At first I thought I'd need VKS for general radio comms and Radtel for phone calls (if I wanted to go that way) but the more I read, the more it looks like they are competitors. Does anyone have any idea/experience about this or with them specifically? If I had to make a decision today, I'd just go with VKS but I want to make sure I'm not overlooking something. Ta, Duncs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Why are you looking at HF if I may ask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncs Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 'Cause I bought one! Anticipating what your emoticon is there fore... I read all the arguments about sat phones vs HF and decided HF was the option I was after. I like the idea of skeds and being able to broadcast if we're in trouble. Plus the "fiddle factor" of getting them to work appeals to me. We'll also carry a PLB. Did that answer your next question, Len ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 No I was going to tell you a cheap way to run a sat phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncs Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Don't tell me that NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 OK then I won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 But you can tell the rest of us Len Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman_DJ Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I think HF is better. When the world turns to sh!t and the satellites get shot down, HF will save us all. Or maybe I have a "my antenna is bigger then yours" complex.... I bought a HF, but I went a full range amateur radio (UHF through to 160m HF all modes). Still studying up for my license (I could do foundation right now, but I want to study and try for standard instead). The bummer of a thing is, I can't talk to guys on the networks because you're not amateur licensed (excluding emergency situations) and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncs Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hmmm. A big hole in my research there I think! Are you saying there's two types of HF license? Or an I just reading you wrong. I'm just looking at the run-of-the-mill license but it sounds like you're talking about a license that let's you talk on frequencies other than the, say, VKS ones? Some sort of super license or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optic Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Thats right Duncs you get it sorted out mate i want my radio back. But ill Waite till you get it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncs Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Settle big fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Thought they had done away with licences' years ago. Have always wanted to get one but just never got round to it. Remember when I was School of the Air through Charleville years ago we used them. Channel 6945 was the one we used and there was also a channel 2020 for just general talk . Back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncs Posted January 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 The licenses do seem to me to be a throwback to prohibition days. The transmitters do have a lot of power 100+watts but when you can buy a 2nd hand one with all the transmit frequencies open on it already, then the license just becomes another way to get money from the people who will use it the right way. Sound familiar? I mean if you're going to misuse the radio, you can without a license. You can also listen to all the skeds. And if you were calling for help, I doubt the lack of a license would stop people helping you. If I've got it right, all you miss out on is phone calls and a selcall number as these are both license/network dependent. But smarter people than me put these rules in place...and maybe I have missed a point somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gafloss Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 But you can tell the rest of us Len C'mon Len, time to share your wisdom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman_DJ Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 ALL radios can only be used with a license. VKS pay for a license and setup a system to use specific freqs. When you become a member, you gain access to THEIR license along with the restrictions placed on them. CB radios also have a license attached to them. A class license exists which is applied to ANYBODY who touches a CB radio. Breach the conditions and you can expect fines. (Well, not really. Not enough enforcement officers). The license I intend to get allows me to pick ANY freq from an approved range to use, set modes, can build my own radios etc. But due to how the radio licenses work, you can't talk to anyone but your own group. So, VKS members can ONLY talk to VKS members (except in emergency situations, in which case ANYTHING is allowed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncs Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Maybe I'm still missing something or maybe I didn't explain properly. Here's another try. I've purchased a second (or third) hand HF. The previous owner had a VKS membership that was still valid when I purchased it. I haven't actually plugged it in yet but I guarantee you that when I do, it'd still be programmed for his membership. I would expect that a very large number (if not all) of the HF radios sold second hand would retain their programming whether or not they still had a valid licence. So I can go transmitting on those VKS frequencies all I like but I'm not licensed. Everyone else in the same situation can too. Sure - people might not reply to me but I can abuse those frequencies all I like if I had the inclination. To program a radio to transmit is a simple matter of getting the manufacturer's software and a plug. Any computer nerd could work this out reasonably quickly without the real software. The documentation is out there as are the codes. Reverse engineering from there is not a terribly difficult exercise. So even if I bought a new radio, given time, I could transmit on any frequency I wanted to. I haven't done a web search but I wouldn't be too surprised if this was already available out there in nerd land anyway. To get a license, I don't have to pass a test. I just fill in a one page form and pay some money and away I go. With or without a license, the worst I can do is seriously annoy some people. So why on earth do I need one? Given these radios cost a small bloody fortune, isn't just forking out for one enough of a test to ensure I'm purchasing it for the right reasons? No different to UHF in my mind other than it costs a bucket load more, is harder to use, and sends/receives over a longer distance. You could argue that the 100+ watt signal strength.needs to be carefully used but if that were the case, then why not provide training first. Simple revenue raising from times past. Now that's not to say that the services provided by VKS etc isn't valuable. I applaud their volunteers and obviously see value in what they provide - but that should be a membership expense, not a "license". Splitting hairs a little there, admittedly, but the point still stands, I CAN use my radio without a license and get great value from the use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman_DJ Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Sorry for the delay, I've been quite busy of late. I own a radio that cost $800 and can already transmit on ANY of the amateur radio freqs WITHOUT needing to be programmed. That means I "COULD" use it to chat and "abuse" those freqs as you put it. The amateur radio community won't like it. They will know if you're a pirate transmitter. If VKS finds anyone using their network then it's their license at risk. They MUST do something about it. Now, here's the catch. The amateur radio community are smart. Very smart. They can do this thing call radio direction finding (RDF). Not only will they know your a pirate, they can locate where you are. When I go for my license, it's a written AND practical test. The VKS network doesn't require such a test because it has such strict requirements on which freqs and power settings. The amateur radio world is shared across the world, and it's more then just annoying a few people. Groups use amateur radio for emergency and disaster communications (such as WICEN) and in general try to respect each other. Do you want amateur radio turning into the same sh!t fest that ch40 is near any major city??? Amateur radio operators don't, which is why they don't complain about licensing and they don't hesitate in tracking and reporting illegal users. I'm not suggesting you would do that and for the record I disagree with how the system works. But the system exists and has worked for a very long time. Without the system, some ch40 idiot could buy a 1000w linear amp and ebay hack radio that does ALL freqs, hook it up wrong and ruin your TV signal. This link about is a case of the system working. http://engage.acma.gov.au/amateurs-need-to-play-by-the-rules/ A guy with a license causes interference with other users. Is banned, he still does it and they prove it's him. Now he's lost all his radio gear and got a good behaviour bond. He's lucky as it could have been two years jail. You last argument is pretty silly if you really think about it. I CAN fly an airplane and get great value from the use. I CAN drive a road train and get great value from the use. I CAN use a full automatic 50cal machine gun and get great value from the use. Doesn't mean it's legal!!!! And just to make it clear. I'm not having a go at you, just trying to get my point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncs Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 That's cool mate - not taking it as you having a go at me. We agree on 99% I think. And thanks for the info on the "bigger" licence. By getting value I mean that without a licence I can still listen to the skeds and if I got into trouble I could still transmit and I'd bet I'd get help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman_DJ Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I have my radio hooked up to the antenna, with the mic unplugged. Technically it's not legal to have because I don't have the license to own the equipment, but it IS legal to use said equipment in an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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