Kimosabi Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 I have a farmer who has asked me to sort out a safe in one of the houses on their farm (WA). Its an old wooden farmhouse and the cops have said that installing a safe in there wouldn't comply because it has to be anchored to brick or cement on three faces. My question is, if we cut a section of the floor out and laid a small concrete pad with cinder block walls on 2 connecting sides and installed the safe that way, would it be compliant? Or does it have to attached to a structural wall? Also, the place has a chimney stack, if the first option isn't going to work, could we make one face of the safe bolt to one of the sides of the fireplace and cinder block the other side using a concrete slab as described in the first option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Hi, A friend of mine had the same problem. He made a steel frame out of 50mm thick wall square tube That went into a foundation of cement that he poured under the floor boards. The frame was anchored inside the wall to the main structural wooden beamed in a corner . Then he re clad the wall so you could not see it safe was bolted to the steel frame work. Had to get police approval for it. By the time he finished with it to get it out you would have to pull the house down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete152 Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 All this to stop criminals from breaking into your house to steal your possessions!! And if they do, you are a criminal!! There is something wrong here. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncs Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 In Vic you could lay the slab, bolt the floor to that and screw one side into a wall stud and you'd be right. That's in Vic though. Dunno if it's ok in WA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyblue Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Can you just get a safe that weighs more than 150kg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncs Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Doesn't it still need to be screwed in at that weight? Just not as rigorously I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyblue Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Doesn't it still need to be screwed in at that weight? Just not as rigorously I think. I really don't know about wa law mate but the Vic law states that if it weighs more than 150kg it can just be stand alone. Why not ring your local gun shop? They will know all the legal ins and outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 As per Schedule 4: 5. Anchoring (1) The cabinet or container is to be securely anchored from the inside at 2 points on each of 2 separate surfaces to 2 immovable structural surfaces by means of 8 mm x 75 mm masonry fixing bolts or coach screws, as is appropriate. (2) At each anchor point the cabinet or container is to be reinforced with a 40 mm x 40 mm x 2 mm metal plate, or a 40 mm x 2 mm metal washer, fitted between the surface of the cabinet or container and the head of the bolt or coach screw. coach screws = BIG ARSED WOOD SCREW!! So long as you are on a main structural joist of the all wood wall its all good, tell them coppers they need to read up on the regulations because their full of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimosabi Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 As per Schedule 4: 5. Anchoring (1) The cabinet or container is to be securely anchored from the inside at 2 points on each of 2 separate surfaces to 2 immovable structural surfaces by means of 8 mm x 75 mm masonry fixing bolts or coach screws, as is appropriate. (2) At each anchor point the cabinet or container is to be reinforced with a 40 mm x 40 mm x 2 mm metal plate, or a 40 mm x 2 mm metal washer, fitted between the surface of the cabinet or container and the head of the bolt or coach screw. coach screws = BIG ARSED WOOD SCREW!! So long as you are on a main structural joist of the all wood wall its all good, tell them coppers they need to read up on the regulations because their full of it. Thanks gibs, confirmed what I was thinking. I was thinking that the grey area was the definition of the immovable structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optic Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Doesn't it still need to be screwed in at that weight? Just not as rigorously I think. 150KG and over is ok for free standing Duncs. And the safe can be a hard wood box. But bolted down. That is how it is written here in VIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyblue Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Thanks gibs, confirmed what I was thinking. I was thinking that the grey area was the definition of the immovable structure. So you need to bolt your safe to a mountain? It pretty much the only thing I can think of that is close to 'immovable' as everything is moveable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimosabi Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 So you need to bolt your safe to a mountain? It pretty much the only thing I can think of that is close to 'immovable' as everything is moveable.... WA = Wacky As, when it comes to firearms and storage Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglefisher Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 If they did give too much grief over coach screws (that's the way mine is done in Qld) then it would probably be easier to cut a hole in the floor and set the safe into concrete under the floor rather than building besa brick walls. I would assume imovable = a permanent structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimosabi Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 If they did give too much grief over coach screws (that's the way mine is done in Qld) then it would probably be easier to cut a hole in the floor and set the safe into concrete under the floor rather than building besa brick walls.I would assume imovable = a permanent structure. Needs to be anchored on 3 faces plus have massive washers that are only available in a couple if places around town. I had to make my own. Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Gibs is right but if they deem the wooden structure inappropriate then you have to do the something to keep them happy its not worth arguing with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Hey matey, if all else fail's, melt some shot into the bottom of the safe till its good an heavy (like 200kg or more) an then ask the sods to try an shift it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Seriously though, you only need to attach the safe onto 2 SIDES with 2 Bolts or Coach Screws per side, not 3 sides, so you only NEED 4 bolts or coach screws in total, re-read the schedule 4 bit again. Having said that I used a total of 8 through bolts on mine (yep that' s right, 8 Bolts right through the wall and the pad) and set them with cement permanently. Another option is Chem Bolts, expensive but work real well. If they do still insist on concrete pad/ brick wall, then build a small lean too/bunker by the side of the house with real solid lockable doors and plonk it in there. No law saying it has to be inside the house! Edited April 18, 2012 by Gibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimosabi Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Seriously though, you only need to attach the safe onto 2 SIDES with 2 Bolts or Coach Screws per side, not 3 sides, so you only NEED 4 bolts or coach screws in total, re-read the schedule 4 bit again.Having said that I used a total of 8 through bolts on mine (yep that' s right, 8 Bolts right through the wall and the pad) and set them with cement permanently. Another option is Chem Bolts, expensive but work real well. If they do still insist on concrete pad/ brick wall, then build a small lean too/bunker by the side of the house with real solid lockable doors and plonk it in there. No law saying it has to be inside the house! Yep 2 sides. I keep going back to what I have at home. I think I will end going the slab and chimney. Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 You do not have to fix the safe if it weighs over a certain amount - if you buy lead ingots and stack them in the safe to meet the weight requirement you are ok - unless its changed recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyblue Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 You do not have to fix the safe if it weighs over a certain amount - if you buy lead ingots and stack them in the safe to meet the weight requirement you are ok - unless its changed recently You might need to attach the weight to the safe though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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